Spring 2023 - Moans, Ramps & Chat

[Weather Enthusiast91]

Whilst I am looking forward to spring warmth just as much as anyone, I personally think people tend to have very high expectations for March. Winter has only just gone and it takes time for everything to properly warm up. Wintry conditions during the first half of March are certainly nothing out of the ordinary. As the old saying about March goes; "In like a lion and out like a lamb".

I find that it's usually around the equinox that things start to settle down (likewise with the autumnal equinox but in reverse). 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Weather Enthusiast91

[LRD]

Well, after the short-lived Great Slush of March 2023 didn't effect my personal plans last weekend (certainly nowhere near the extent I first feared), I'm relaxed about what the rest of March might bring

From Easter to early Sept, though, warmth and sunshine please. With some southerly-sourced lively thunderstorms for good measure

Edited March 13, 2023 by LRD

[CryoraptorA303]

1 hour ago, Weather Enthusiast91 said:

Whilst I am looking forward to spring warmth just as much as anyone, I personally think people tend to have very high expectations for March. Winter has only just gone and it takes time for everything to properly warm up. Wintry conditions during the first half of March are certainly nothing out of the ordinary. As the old saying about March goes; "In like a lion and out like a lamb".

I find that it's usually around the equinox that things start to settle down (likewise with the autumnal equinox but in reverse). 

Totally agree. People seem to have this expectation that we should be seeing 18c or higher every day as soon as we're a few days into March, and anything lower is unseasonably cold. The reality is, the average high in London on March 31st is 12c, and right now it's closer to 11c. It's completely acceptable for March to have a wintry bite to it, and I can name at least two in my lifetime that had far colder conditions than this. April is the month to start getting excited for spring warmth, if you're into that. If you go into March with the expectation of average May weather, you are going to be disappointed in all but the most exceptional of years.

For me the forecasted mild spell with exceptionally average temperatures for the rest of March is more than enough. I don't really want to see regular highs of 16c or more before April.

[Catbrainz]

I have a newbie question I was wondering. What synoptics are generally the sunniest and cloudiest. Sunniest from personal experience seems to be anticyclonic southerlies and cloudiest cyclonic Atlantic westerlies or anticyclonic easterlies/north easterlies (the classical anticyclonic gloom). At least this seems to be the case for south Wales where I live. Could be different elsewhere like I can see say SW England or West Wales doing better for sun in a NE wind as theres more chance for North Sea cloud to break up/get blocked by highground). 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Catbrainz

[matt111]

Not exactly what I'd call a sunny day today but at least I actually saw the sun, and not just early in the morning either. Was nice to have some reasonably active weather last night and earlier today too.  

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Catbrainz said:

I have a newbie question I was wondering. What synoptics are generally the sunniest and cloudiest. Sunniest from personal experience seems to be anticyclonic southerlies and cloudiest cyclonic Atlantic westerlies or anticyclonic easterlies/north easterlies (the classical anticyclonic gloom). At least this seems to be the case for south Wales where I live. Could be different elsewhere like I can see say SW England or West Wales doing better for sun in a NE wind as theres more chance for North Sea cloud to break up/get blocked by highground). 

Hi, it can vary greatly depending on location, but in winter colder airmasses are often clearer and sunnier whilst the mild, moisture laden winds off the Atlantic are cloudier. But then winds off the sea can bring a lot of low cloud in spring and early summer even if high pressure is in charge. There are so many variables to take into consideration but you've summed it up well for your location.

[Sun Chaser]

I find a lot of people (including myself) have extremely high expectations for March. Since it's the start of "spring" and has arrived on the back of a sunny February, as well as March 2022 being quite exceptional, I was mentally prepared for something a lot nicer. It's easy to forget we are still in the 4th coldest month of the year.

We have had some lovely spring spells of weather in the past few years (May 2018, the end of March 2019, all of spring 2020, second half of April 2021, March/April 2022) and it won't be long before something good comes out of this year. Even spring 2013 and 2021 had some nice spells of weather! I'm just glad it isn't summer right now with these synoptics because that would be awful.

[Azazel]

5 hours ago, CryoraptorA303 said:

Well with all due respect, you're just wrong on this one. This country is an oceanic archipelago and doesn't normally experience extreme temperatures. When it does, it causes an environmental disaster, Mr. "Sunny76". Do you know what else happened in 1976? A severe drought due to the extreme temperatures. This is happening more and more due to climate change, except now heatwaves are maxing out in the high-30s or as last year showed us, 40c. Wildlife surveys have shown consistent declines in that year due to the extreme heat and drought. The more this keeps happening without a sufficient recovery period, the worse the damage to our ecosystems will be.

If you want every year to be 1976, sorry but you're in the wrong place. Go somewhere where 1976 is the norm and the ecosystem is adapted to those conditions, or stop complaining about this archipelago's "cold" weather. You want cold weather? Go to Scandinavia, or Siberia, or Canada. That's what cold weather looks like. We very rarely have truly cold weather in this part of the world, even without climate change completely eliminating what actual winter we did have most of the time.

As for people suffering due to the cold, I understand that right now times are tough and some may be having to choose between heating their homes or eating, especially in December when we did have actual cold weather for a decent amount of time, but this winter as whole has not been especially cold at all, with the second half of December and first half of January being very mild, and then February being more like a normal March.

 

As for others, I won't name anyone, but the average high on March 13th in London is 10c. The weather we're experiencing is not particularly cold for March at all. There have been way colder Marches in my lifetime, which is probably considerably shorter than some on here. People need to stop being dramatic about the "cold" weather. This is completely normal and acceptable for March. We're missing the point here; the exceptional thing about this March is how overcast it's been.

Not another weather gatekeeper.

posters here are just as entitled to both want or prefer hot weather in the U.K. as those who want cold/snowy weather. Nobody should be made to feel guilty or ‘wrong’ for their weather preferences. To add to this, everybody ‘feels’ the temperature in a different way. Just because 10 degrees isn’t cold to you, to me (and several others) it’s unpleasantly cool. Likewise, 25 degrees is pretty much bang-on the money for me but a bit too warm for other people.

Personally, 40 degrees last year was way too hot for me (in this country with our infrastructure - would’ve been alright had I not been working and had access to a pool or something all day) but I love warm/hot weather and I absolutely cannot wait for this winter to be properly over.

 

Can I politely suggest you stop being ‘dramatic’ about other people’s weather preferences? Telling people to go somewhere else because they prefer hot weather is a pointless endeavour and isn’t very inclusive is it. Just because someone wants every summer to be 1976 doesn’t mean they EXPECT every summer to be like 1976 in the U.K. - it’s a dumb strawman argument that completely misses the point and I’m sure ‘Mr. Sunny76’ is well aware of the climate of the country he lives in. 
 

anyway, the cold, dank weather has been replaced by my absolute least favourite weather type - windy and dank.

[CryoraptorA303]

21 hours ago, plymsunshine said:

I find a lot of people (including myself) have extremely high expectations for March. Since it's the start of "spring" and has arrived on the back of a sunny February, as well as March 2022 being quite exceptional, I was mentally prepared for something a lot nicer. It's easy to forget we are still in the 4th coldest month of the year.

We have had some lovely spring spells of weather in the past few years (May 2018, the end of March 2019, all of spring 2020, second half of April 2021, March/April 2022) and it won't be long before something good comes out of this year. Even spring 2013 and 2021 had some nice spells of weather! I'm just glad it isn't summer right now with these synoptics because that would be awful.

People do. It doesn't help that by the end of the month we're at mid-September insolation with longer days than nights, yet we're averaging a full 7c below mid-September in temperature (which makes the difference between warm and cold to a lot of people) due to seasonal lag. I think the mental aspect of high Sun = warmth misleads a lot of people into expecting a serious warmup in March rather than treating it as the exception, and then complaining when it's still in the low teens, even though that's what we would expect from a normal March. Only the most exceptional Marches have the sort of conditions that people expect it to; in my lifetime there's only been March 2012 and March 2011 not far behind it. Aside from that, you can somewhat reliably expect a warm spell towards the end that brings us into the high teens for a few days, but that's about it. Even in April, it's perfectly acceptable to go into the high single digits for a few days in the beginning and it happens in more years than not.

I'm surprised you mention last March. While it definitely was a warmer March than some and had that warm spell in the second half of the month, it really wasn't much out of the ordinary. Even then, expecting every March to be like 2022 as a default is going to leave you disappointed a lot of the time. Sometimes a 2013 or 2018 is going to happen given the margin of error (although 2018 later became a disaster/dream depending on how you view the heat and dryness). The point being I suppose, this March is really nothing out of the ordinary and if anything is one of the more average Marches in my lifetime, temperature-wise. Precipitation wise, this is definitely one of the more unusual ones (although it doesn't seem to be hitting anywhere near as hard as some runs were suggesting... or is the average March really that dry?).

21 hours ago, Azazel said:

Not another weather gatekeeper.

posters here are just as entitled to both want or prefer hot weather in the U.K. as those who want cold/snowy weather. Nobody should be made to feel guilty or ‘wrong’ for their weather preferences. To add to this, everybody ‘feels’ the temperature in a different way. Just because 10 degrees isn’t cold to you, to me (and several others) it’s unpleasantly cool. Likewise, 25 degrees is pretty much bang-on the money for me but a bit too warm for other people.

Personally, 40 degrees last year was way too hot for me (in this country with our infrastructure - would’ve been alright had I not been working and had access to a pool or something all day) but I love warm/hot weather and I absolutely cannot wait for this winter to be properly over.

 

Can I politely suggest you stop being ‘dramatic’ about other people’s weather preferences? Telling people to go somewhere else because they prefer hot weather is a pointless endeavour and isn’t very inclusive is it. Just because someone wants every summer to be 1976 doesn’t mean they EXPECT every summer to be like 1976 in the U.K. - it’s a dumb strawman argument that completely misses the point and I’m sure ‘Mr. Sunny76’ is well aware of the climate of the country he lives in. 
 

anyway, the cold, dank weather has been replaced by my absolute least favourite weather type - windy and dank.

Okay, two things, one a direct response and the other a concession.

First off, I have never claimed that 10c is 'warm'. It's obviously not. Of course at that temperature it all depends on sunlight, humidity, wind, etc. An overcast, windy day in December at 10c is going to feel significantly more chilly than a sunny, gentle day in April at 10c. E.g. in March 2020 I remember going out in a t-shirt in 10-11c weather because of the bright sunshine at the time, while in January I needed a jacket to go out in 12-13c overcast, windy conditions and the chill in the air was unpleasant.

My claim is that 10c can't really be described as "cold" weather, and its not unseasonable either. Further into April, maybe, but 10c in the middle of March is bang on average for most places; even London's average sits at 11c at this point of the year. Single digits in March are completely normal and are going to happen in all but the most exceptional of years. In fact they're going to happen in April more often than not. We started the month off below average and had a few chilly days, yes, fair enough, if you hate the cold complain about them, and if you're up north and have been in the middle of snow (which is still normal for March all things considered), complain about that. But if you're down south where the worst we had was a few frosty mornings and a dusting of snow which lasted a grand total of 4 hours if you're lucky, and now we've gone up to bang on, if not even a little above average and seem to be staying there for the duration, I'm sorry but that really doesn't come off as unseasonable to me. People need to lower their expectations for the fourth coldest month in the year. The way some people are talking you'd think it was May already.

But I will take this opportunity to apologise to anyone who I've directly or indirectly told to go somewhere else where this sort of heat is the norm, or otherwise insulted. I would simply like some conscience that these heatwaves aren't just 'a bit of warm weather' and are seriously damaging to nature and the vulnerable. Enjoy your heat responsibly guys.

I guess this has all come out because of people complaining about the recent weather. Of course, I complained about February being too warm, so it may come off as hypocritical, but bear in mind that the second half of February was unusually warm for February and was heading for a really early spring. There's that vs wow this March has been really cold, well no it hasn't really has it. Your expectations of the fourth coldest month are way too high vs the reality of the situation. You'll notice I haven't said anything about the (larger) number of people commenting about the overcast conditions; that's because it really is quite overcast for March. That's the part I don't dispute, it is very autumn-like for the opposite season. March is supposed to be among the driest, sunniest months, so that part is the abnormal one. Moaning about the temperature is, imo, barking up the wrong tree.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Blessed Weather
Excessive weather guilt tripping remarks removed.

[Mapantz]

I think some members could do with a refresh of the forum guidelines

[Freeze]

4 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

I think some members could do with a refresh of the forum guidelines

Yes the thread is the moans about the weather, not moan about everyone who posts on it.

[JoeShmoe]

 Most of the coldies (I.e 75% of the site) are lining their burrows for summer hibernation. Looking forward to heat and storms now (which have an immeasurably higher percentage of happening than snowfall !)

[Mapantz]

2 minutes ago, Freeze said:

Yes the thread is the moans about the weather, not moan about everyone who posts on it.

Talking of weather; Did it get rough down your way this afternoon?

It was pretty blowy here this morning!

 

[Freeze]

1 minute ago, Mapantz said:

Talking of weather; Did it get rough down your way this afternoon?

It was pretty blowy here this morning!

 

No not really gusts towards 30-40mph but not too bad, it seems unusually the higher winds were further inland, here just a standard windy-ish  day 

[Sunny76]

8 hours ago, Weather Enthusiast91 said:

Whilst I am looking forward to spring warmth just as much as anyone, I personally think people tend to have very high expectations for March. Winter has only just gone and it takes time for everything to properly warm up. Wintry conditions during the first half of March are certainly nothing out of the ordinary. As the old saying about March goes; "In like a lion and out like a lamb".

I find that it's usually around the equinox that things start to settle down (likewise with the autumnal equinox but in reverse). 

Yeah it can be hit and miss with March in terms of getting a taste of spring weather. Even April in some years can take time to produce some warm weather. It’s usually the first or second week of April in most years before we enjoy some proper warm days. 

11 minutes ago, JoeShmoe said:

 Most of the coldies (I.e 75% of the site) are lining their burrows for summer hibernation. Looking forward to heat and storms now (which have an immeasurably higher percentage of happening than snowfall !)

The storms are sometimes harder to come by, even more than snow.

I hope we get a humdinger of a storm this summer.

[cheeky_monkey]

30 minutes ago, JoeShmoe said:

 Most of the coldies (I.e 75% of the site) are lining their burrows for summer hibernation. Looking forward to heat and storms now (which have an immeasurably higher percentage of happening than snowfall !)

is it 75%?? or just the vocal minority as with the rest of the world.

[TQWX]

Tomorrow looks fantastic. A good amount of UV too.

 

[Sun Chaser]

1 hour ago, CryoraptorA303 said:

I'm surprised you mention last March. While it definitely was a warmer March than some and had that warm spell in the second half of the month, it really wasn't much out of the ordinary. Even then, expecting every March to be like 2022 as a default is going to leave you disappointed a lot of the time.

I'm not completely sure but I remember last March being the sunniest on record for over 90 years. Certainly down here it was actually slightly sunnier than 2012 and its mean temperature was exactly the same (9.8C). It lacked a very warm (widely low 20s) spell like we had in 2012 or 2021, but instead we got a full 10 days of clear blue skies and high teens with little wind, and the rest of the month was very mild anyway, barring the weekend of 5-6 March and the northerly that set in around the 30th. Very dry as well apart from the first three days. I will forever remember being able to swim in the sea with my friends on 14th March 2022, never been able to do something like that so early in the year before. No such thing this year haha  March 2022 was my second favourite March ever, after 2012.

1 hour ago, Sunny76 said:

Yeah it can be hit and miss with March in terms of getting a taste of spring weather. Even April in some years can take time to produce some warm weather. It’s usually the first or second week of April in most years before we enjoy some proper warm days. 

The storms are sometimes harder to come by, even more than snow.

I hope we get a humdinger of a storm this summer.

My birthday is on the 11th April and usually we get at least a short spell in the high teens by then, only 2013 and 2016 I can remember have failed on this count. I'm lucky as very often my birthday has clear blue skies!

1 hour ago, Mapantz said:

Talking of weather; Did it get rough down your way this afternoon?

It was pretty blowy here this morning!

 

Here it was the windiest day since Franklin last February, no mean feat for well into March. Weirdly it felt quite mild at 13C despite the howling winds, as the sun was peering through the clouds quite often today (between the showers). Usually the wind is the worst thing of all for me and I feel the cold very easily but today, by this March's standards, wasn't too bad.

[Sunny76]

11 hours ago, CryoraptorA303 said:

Well with all due respect, you're just wrong on this one. This country is an oceanic archipelago and doesn't normally experience extreme temperatures. When it does, it causes an environmental disaster, Mr. "Sunny76". Do you know what else happened in 1976? A severe drought due to the extreme temperatures. This is happening more and more due to climate change, except now heatwaves are maxing out in the high-30s or as last year showed us, 40c. Wildlife surveys have shown consistent declines in that year due to the extreme heat and drought. The more this keeps happening without a sufficient recovery period, the worse the damage to our ecosystems will be.

If you want every year to be 1976, sorry but you're in the wrong place. Go somewhere where 1976 is the norm and the ecosystem is adapted to those conditions, or stop complaining about this archipelago's "cold" weather. You want cold weather? Go to Scandinavia, or Siberia, or Canada. That's what cold weather looks like. We very rarely have truly cold weather in this part of the world, even without climate change completely eliminating what actual winter we did have most of the time.

As for people suffering due to the cold, I understand that right now times are tough and some may be having to choose between heating their homes or eating, especially in December when we did have actual cold weather for a decent amount of time, but this winter as whole has not been especially cold at all, with the second half of December and first half of January being very mild, and then February being more like a normal March.

 

As for others, I won't name anyone, but the average high on March 13th in London is 10c. The weather we're experiencing is not particularly cold for March at all. There have been way colder Marches in my lifetime, which is probably considerably shorter than some on here. People need to stop being dramatic about the "cold" weather. This is completely normal and acceptable for March. We're missing the point here; the exceptional thing about this March is how overcast it's been.

You are taking utter nonsense. I never said I expect a 1976 every year. lol please carry on!

[Sunny76]

11 hours ago, CryoraptorA303 said:

A bit trying? My sleep is already fragile; in last year's extreme heat I started to become highly irritable and agitated due to sleep deprivation. By August with the Tmin consistently high and days staying quite hot I was really struggling. The sort of summer we had last year isn't just a bit trying, it's outright dangerous to people who have trouble cooling themselves down. I have a very fast metabolism and as such produce a lot of body heat. I really struggle to stay cool after about 28c. Anything more than 32c is unbearable heat to me.

I've had the window open in the day all year mate, apart from when it was truly freezing in December. I have fish tanks in my house so the air can get really humid, I need a bit of fresh air.

You make it sound like we had a 6 month heatwave last year. We had about 3-4 weeks of exceptionally hot weather, interrupted by a few cooler days.

By late August the storms arrived and that gradually lead to a cool down into September, which was still warm. By late September the nights and mornings become quite chilly and since then temps have been anywhere close to becoming ‘too warm’. 
 

Yes it was a very mild autumn, but the wet weather made the air damp and cool, december was cold and some periods of January and February were very cold. It wasn’t a mild or very mild winter like you claim it to be.

[Sunny76]

11 hours ago, CryoraptorA303 said:

A bit trying? My sleep is already fragile; in last year's extreme heat I started to become highly irritable and agitated due to sleep deprivation. By August with the Tmin consistently high and days staying quite hot I was really struggling. The sort of summer we had last year isn't just a bit trying, it's outright dangerous to people who have trouble cooling themselves down. I have a very fast metabolism and as such produce a lot of body heat. I really struggle to stay cool after about 28c. Anything more than 32c is unbearable heat to me.

I've had the window open in the day all year mate, apart from when it was truly freezing in December. I have fish tanks in my house so the air can get really humid, I need a bit of fresh air.

I struggle to keep warm when it’s less than 11c, and 10c my hands feel cold all the time. That’s my equivalent of your intolerance to 28c daytime temps, but you will still regard 10c as mild. It’s not when there’s a wind and it’s accompanied by a wind and rain.

[Don]

5 minutes ago, Sunny76 said:

Yes it was a very mild autumn, but the wet weather made the air damp and cool, december was cold and some periods of January and February were very cold. It wasn’t a mild or very mild winter like you claim it to be.

Not sure there were any periods in January and more particularly February when it was very cold.  I would place the winter in the mild category overall.

[S Bragg]

For what it's worth the older I get the less I like the heat.  Personally, I'm dreading the onset of Spring and Summer this year and I will not apologise for that.

[S Bragg]

On 11/03/2023 at 22:48, Sunny76 said:

Fair enough, but this winter was cold enough for most people to need the heating on.

Even a mild winter like last year required me to use the heating.

I can’t sit in a cold flat otherwise damp and mould starts to form. That in itself becomes a health issue.

I’m more inclined to think we don’t get enough warm weather in this country, hot weather more to the point, and certainly not enough where people should be complaining about it.

More people have suffered during the cold since late November, compared to last years heatwave.

Who are you to judge whether we should have more or less of whatever kind of weather you, personally prefer?

[KTtom]

Very happy with the model output this morning. The threat of a cold March is quickly receeding, after todays nucence cold, my location is back to double figures, even 15 c possible by the end of the week..1st beers of the year  in the beer garden after work friday

Edited March 14, 2023 by KTtom