Winter 2010/2011

[Guest]

It's surprising what a bit of convergence down the North Sea coasts can do.

[Thundery wintry showers]

I must say that Leeds is a surprisingly snowy city, probably the second snowiest city in England behind Norwich, provided there is not a straight northerly we do very well for showers and are sufficiently far south to catch the northern extent of a lot of Channel Lows.

I don't think there is much between Newcastle and Leeds in terms of title of england's most snowiest city. I actually think Durham beats the two. Tyne and Wear does much less well from frontal snow from the west compared to Leeds, however, it does much better from snoowy northerlies and north easterlies. Leeds being further south can catch frontal snow events from the south associated with low pressure whereas Newcastle being further north doesn't often do so well under 'channel low set ups', though these are rare beasts nowadays.

I think england's snowiest settlement is Nenthead in the North Pennines and Alston the snowiest town.

Taking 30-year averages I'm pretty sure that Durham is indeed England's snowiest city. This ceased to be the case during the period 1999-2008, when due to a high incidence of straight northerlies as opposed to north-easterlies and easterlies, Durham was no snowier than Sunderland despite being much further inland, but I expect that this will just prove to be a quirk of inter-decadal variability.

I think Norwich probably is the snowiest city in southern England but I have little doubt that Durham, Newcastle, Sheffield and Bradford are all snowier, while Sunderland, Leeds, York, Lincoln and Birmingham are probably about the same. Leeds falls slightly behind Sheffield and Bradford on average due to lower altitude.

Cleadon, where my records come from, is right next to Sunderland but for snowiness it probably ranks somewhere in between Newcastle and Sunderland because it doesn't get much of an urban heat island effect.

[Osbourne One-Nil]

and Alston the snowiest town.

I think of Alston less as a town, and more as a punishment.

[Isolated Frost]

Pretty sure we had this conversion a year or so ago. I believe results (rough agreed!) were as following.

Snowiest

England City Durham

England Town Alston

England Village Nenethead.

Scotland City Aberdeen

Scotland Town Aviemore

Scotland Village Tomintoul

Not sure about NI and Wales. I do remember people going on and on about what makes a city

I've never been prouder to be a Durham Citizen

Now to google search 'Nenethead'...

[Tucco]

I've never been prouder to be a Durham Citizen

Now to google search 'Nenethead'...

Search Nenthead instead. Typo from me :o

[Isolated Frost]

Search Nenthead instead. Typo from me :o

Hehe. Okay.

Where in Teesdale do you live, I can't imagine I live more than half an hour from you.

[Typhoon John]

I've never been prouder to be a Durham Citizen

Now to google search 'Nenethead'...

I know, first for something!

Although I have had to experience some releatively snowless Winters during the 2000s.

But it's generally a very snowy place, we often get significant amounts of snow and it's bearly mentioned on the national weather.

[Alex95]

I know, first for something!

Although I have had to experience some releatively snowless Winters during the 2000s.

But it's generally a very snowy place, we often get significant amounts of snow and it's bearly mentioned on the national weather.

The North East is often forgotten about when it comes to snow. On the 30th December last year we were forecast "a few wintry showers near North East coasts". On New Year's Eve we were forecast "Scattered wintry showers today and tomorrow". On New Year's Day there was over 4 inches of snow which lay for about 10 more days.

Edited September 29, 2010 by alza

[Thundery wintry showers]

Mr_Data has mentioned in the past that they often underestimate shower activity in north-west England from northerly flows with a westerly component as well. For example 14 December 2003 was forecast to be a sunny dry day in western areas with some showers near the east coast, turning wintry in the north late on, while the outcome saw plenty of showers blow in off the Irish Sea into much of NW England. On that occasion they fell as rain at low levels, but it can happen with snow showers also.

[LomondSnowstorm]

Mr_Data has mentioned in the past that they often underestimate shower activity in north-west England from northerly flows with a westerly component as well. For example 14 December 2003 was forecast to be a sunny dry day in western areas with some showers near the east coast, turning wintry in the north late on, while the outcome saw plenty of showers blow in off the Irish Sea into much of NW England. On that occasion they fell as rain at low levels, but it can happen with snow showers also.

They seem to do the same with easterlies in my neck of the woods also - 17th December and 2nd February last year being prime examples of easterlies that delivered a few inches from heavy convective showers through the day which were unforecast by the met office.

[Backtrack]

Mr_Data has mentioned in the past that they often underestimate shower activity in north-west England from northerly flows with a westerly component as well. For example 14 December 2003 was forecast to be a sunny dry day in western areas with some showers near the east coast, turning wintry in the north late on, while the outcome saw plenty of showers blow in off the Irish Sea into much of NW England. On that occasion they fell as rain at low levels, but it can happen with snow showers also.

Not to mention the shear amount of hail we get, Ian.

[Isolated Frost]

Been scanning around 200 full pages of the Regional North East Cold Spell discussion from the most recent winter. Honestly, I should on NetWeather ages ago. It has just wet my appetite for snow. Alot of snow. Loadsa of snow. If it's as good as last year, I'll have 5 paragraphs of excitement every single post.

Now, I'm just waiting for the stuff...

[damianslaw]

The North East is often forgotten about when it comes to snow. On the 30th December last year we were forecast "a few wintry showers near North East coasts". On New Year's Eve we were forecast "Scattered wintry showers today and tomorrow". On New Year's Day there was over 4 inches of snow which lay for about 10 more days.

The north east of england does very well from straight northerlies for snow, the north york moors in particular.

Inland towns in County Durham such as Tow Law and Consett can't be far behind Alston for accolade of snowiest towns, they do less well than Alston from frontal snow but they are much better placed from northerlies, north easterlies and easterlies with no protection from the Pennines. I remember when living in Newcastle on many occasions hearing reports of heavy snow in the Consett area only for there to be rain in Tyne and Wear - again a bit of height makes a huge difference.

In this neck of the woods, the difference of just 50m can be the margin between snow and rain, coastal areas of Cumbria do poorly for snowfall, whereas inland valley locations away from the south west quarter of the county and places above 100m (Windermere is just above this height) tend to see much more snow and generally much colder conditions, the mountains to the west enhancing convection in areas just to the east i.e. central lakes in showery conditions and thus aiding evaporative cooling.

[Guest]

They seem to do the same with easterlies in my neck of the woods also - 17th December and 2nd February last year being prime examples of easterlies that delivered a few inches from heavy convective showers through the day which were unforecast by the met office.

There were times that the showers got quite far inland, I'm sure some of those same easterlies gave an inch or two as far west as me here. I know we half joked about Tay-Clyde and Forth-Clyde snow streamers but they do exist.

In this neck of the woods, the difference of just 50m can be the margin between snow and rain, coastal areas of Cumbria do poorly for snowfall, whereas inland valley locations away from the south west quarter of the county and places above 100m (Windermere is just above this height) tend to see much more snow and generally much colder conditions, the mountains to the west enhancing convection in areas just to the east i.e. central lakes in showery conditions and thus aiding evaporative cooling.

Last winter that was the difference between a foot of snow and nothing in the west of Scotland. It was as if someone had taken a white pencil round the 50m contour line, everything above it was pasted and everything below it was snowless.

[Cheese Rice]

Okay so I did a forecast on the 28th July, which by any standards is very early. This is all very experimental, I don't really expect to succeed. 

My Forecast Autumn- After an Atlantic driven second half to Sumer the theme continues with the Atlantic in full control of the UK, the first half of Autumn looks unsettled and wet, again Southern areas experiencing drier and brighter weather, during this period temperatures across Northern areas average-below and above average in the south. To-wards the second half of the month more emphasis on high pressure, dragging in cool cloudy easterlies bringing below average temperatures for eastern areas and average temperatures for Western areas.

Overall- Temperatures slightly below average in Northern areas and above average in the south. 

Winter- Similar to Winter 08/09, spells of colder weather lasting 1-2 weeks with milder interludes, Scotland/N.Ireland experiencing shorter cold spells and a higher emphasis on Atlantic driven Milder weather. Southern areas heavily influenced by high pressure bringing cold dry weather. With Wales/N.England in the middle of the Atlantic driven north, and cold south, bringing battle ground scenarios. The cold never leaving the South and East.

Overall- Temperatures slightly above average in the North and slightly below average South of Scotland, significantly so the further south and east.

So far the forecast seems to going okay. A cool second half to autumn seems probable, signs of this already showing on the GFS, although I expect a while yet till this comes to frutation.  

Edited September 29, 2010 by 10123

[Norrance]

There were times that the showers got quite far inland, I'm sure some of those same easterlies gave an inch or two as far west as me here. I know we half joked about Tay-Clyde and Forth-Clyde snow streamers but they do exist.

Last winter that was the difference between a foot of snow and nothing in the west of Scotland. It was as if someone had taken a white pencil round the 50m contour line, everything above it was pasted and everything below it was snowless.

Hi guys. I have the official snow lying figures over 50% cover at 9AM for the Scottish cities[except Stirling] for the 1961-90 and 1971-2000 periods.

For 61-90

Aberdeen. 29 days

Dundee 15 days

Inverness 13 days

Edinburgh 12 days

Glasgow 10 days.

71-2000 did not differ too much from that though I suspect that up to 2010 might have.

Aberdeen's records came from Craibstone NW of the city at 102 mtrs asl. Dyce at 66 mtrs asl was 23 days showing how a few metres can make a difference.

Dundee from Mylnefield near Invergowrie by the river at 30mtrs asl.

Inverness from Dalcross at 4 mtrs asl.

Edinburgh from Turnhouse 35 mtrs asl.

Glasgow from Paisley at 32 mtrs asl.

Records if available from the southern parts of Inverness, the NW parts of Dundee or the Southern parts of Edinburgh and higher areas of Glasgow all with a little more altitude would maybe make a bit of difference.

I did have records for some of the English cities also but can't locate them.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Norrance

[Guest]

Glasgow from Paisley at 32 mtrs asl.

I wonder where that site is for Paisley, as the town centre is the boundary for the tidal part of the White Cart Water, therefore not much above sea level.

[BristolBlizzard]

Anybody else looking forward to some nice hard frosts?

[NorthernRab]

Aye, that's a good take on it (much better than mine!). I'm not convinced that Aberdeen city itself is that snowy, if the experience of last winter's Scottish thread was anything to go by. But this is one of the reasons why certain areas of Scotland are populated and others are not.

Aberdeen has to be the snowiest city in the UK and I think that last winter was probably the only one I can remember during my lifetime when it was Inverness and not Aberdeen. It was very odd last winter, the Invernesians, Glaswegians, Dundonians and Edinburgers all shivering away while Aberdeen seemed to be struggling to drop below freezing, but it did quickly change and Aberdeen eventually joined in the fun I recall.

[ZONE 51]

Anybody else looking forward to some nice hard frosts?

Cant do without my frosts, its all part of it, after we get through the atlantic setup (which could bring a damaging wind event to some even the south!) the last 2wks weeks of october widespread frosts for most of us looking likely , i do like fern frost on cars, cant wait not had a frost yet, although i am excited about the next 2wks of what the atlantic could bring...

Edited September 30, 2010 by nimbilus

[NorthernRab]

Hi guys. I have the official snow lying figures over 50% cover at 9AM for the Scottish cities[except Stirling] for the 1961-90 and 1971-2000 periods.

Inverness 13 days

Inverness from Dalcross at 4 mtrs asl.

Cheers for that Norrance, good find! Although I've quote the Inverness weather station because it is quite frustrating that it's just not really an Invernesian station (we don't really actually have one). I know that no weather station for any city is ever going to be bang on, but Dalcross is right beside the coast, miles down the Firth (a mitigating factor for cold weather, see Rosehearty's mild climate for example) whereas much of Inverness lies on uphill slopes of the Glen Mhor - really a weather station at somewhere like Culloden or Lochardil would be much more desirable. I remember speaking with Pete the mod, very banterous guy who lived in Inverness for some time, he lived tight down by the coast and when it was snowing heavily in my garden it would be sleet for him - this is nothing compared to Gillian in Milton of Leyes (high elevation part of Inverness) who experiences some very snowy winters indeed. One thing all the Invernesian Netweather-ers did get to talk about was the freezing fog we often get though

Anybody else looking forward to some nice hard frosts?

Definitely

Pretty sure we had this conversion a year or so ago. I believe results (rough agreed!) were as following.

Snowiest

England City Durham

England Town Alston

England Village Nenethead.

Scotland City Aberdeen

Scotland Town Aviemore

Scotland Village Tomintoul

Not sure about NI and Wales. I do remember people going on and on about what makes a city

Snowiest settlement in Scotland must be Braemar, not Tomintoul?

[bedlington83]

Inland towns in County Durham such as Tow Law and Consett can't be far behind Alston for accolade of snowiest towns, they do less well than Alston from frontal snow but they are much better placed from northerlies, north easterlies and easterlies with no protection from the Pennines. I remember when living in Newcastle on many occasions hearing reports of heavy snow in the Consett area only for there to be rain in Tyne and Wear - again a bit of height makes a huge difference.

There were many times last winter that my wife arrived at work having struggled through the snow to get to the clear roads lower down only to be met with looks of derision at work when she complained about the snow. It's right what you say about a little bit of height as well - the snow line for much of last winter was around Dipton/Medomsley which are only around 25m lower than Consett itself. Where they had a little bit of wet slushy stuff in Consett it was like this.

Edited September 30, 2010 by bedlington83

[Eugene]

Okay so I did a forecast on the 28th July, which by any standards is very early. This is all very experimental, I don't really expect to succeed.

My Forecast Autumn- After an Atlantic driven second half to Sumer the theme continues with the Atlantic in full control of the UK, the first half of Autumn looks unsettled and wet, again Southern areas experiencing drier and brighter weather, during this period temperatures across Northern areas average-below and above average in the south. To-wards the second half of the month more emphasis on high pressure, dragging in cool cloudy easterlies bringing below average temperatures for eastern areas and average temperatures for Western areas.

Overall- Temperatures slightly below average in Northern areas and above average in the south.

Winter- Similar to Winter 08/09, spells of colder weather lasting 1-2 weeks with milder interludes, Scotland/N.Ireland experiencing shorter cold spells and a higher emphasis on Atlantic driven Milder weather. Southern areas heavily influenced by high pressure bringing cold dry weather. With Wales/N.England in the middle of the Atlantic driven north, and cold south, bringing battle ground scenarios. The cold never leaving the South and East.

Overall- Temperatures slightly above average in the North and slightly below average South of Scotland, significantly so the further south and east.

So far the forecast seems to going okay. A cool second half to autumn seems probable, signs of this already showing on the GFS, although I expect a while yet till this comes to frutation.

Sounds more than just ok, seems spot on to me.

I think you mean towards the second half of Autumn, yes there are hints HP could influence us more after mid October but it may still be not strong enough to keep the atlantic at bay for too long with LP undercutting the HP to our northeast, lets hope the cold arrives a month earlier this year

Anybody else looking forward to some nice hard frosts?

Yes i'm looking forward to some harsh frosts, it doesn't have to snow all the time for me, i love HP spells with HP centred over central UK November to March giving harsh night time frosts and cold foggy days :lol:

[greybing]

manchester.....anyone know where that ranks on the list of snowiest british cities.........i would imagine somwhere in the middle

Edited September 30, 2010 by greybing

[Gavin P]

Netweather seasonal forecast updated;

http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=longrange;sess=

Hinting at a cold December and January?

Edited September 30, 2010 by Gavin P