Summer 2022 Chat

[Bradley in Kent]

Yes if summer were a long weekend (and what a weekend it's been) we're now in the Monday equivalent. Still some time to enjoy but the main peak (Saturday) is behind us. 

The heavy rain of yesterday (in my location) plus a chilly night seems to have removed the last of the residual warmth in the ground. 

I'm selfishly happy with how this summer has been and am now looking forward to Autumn

[cheeky_monkey]

staying hot and dry here for the next week or so...32c today, then cools of little over the weekend then back into the low to mid 30s next week ..forecasting 34-35c for next Thursday.

[Met.]

11 hours ago, SnowBear said:

I will just comment on drought. 

We have had droughts in the past, some lasting years, and those were probably much worse than the current one.

Why? We use an awful lot more water now than the past. When you had to carry your water from the well, or nearby stream, you didn't waste it. 

So a couple of points to make. 

Droughts in the past would have been severe, we did not draw anywhere near as much water for daily use. 

The one we are in is in many ways our own making as we use, and waste, so much, drawing on reservoirs, lakes and aquifiers in such a way as never before. 

To compare the droughts of today with those of a few hundred years ago these things need to be taken into account.

In recent history we have had droughts, 1976 being one, we are not quite there yet, although again water usage and waste is high, next year if we don't have replenishing rains over winter, then we might be. 

When you have one shower a month you don't waste water. But you do have a terrible case of BO.

[B87]

I believe that after today's sunshine totals are added, London will have overtaken the totals of Augusts 2016 and 2019, meaning that August 2022 will be the sunniest since 2005!

Sunniest Augusts since 1991:

1995: 295 hrs

1998: 263 hrs

2003: 255 hrs

2005: 250 hrs

1991: 242 hrs

2016: 222 hrs

2019: 222 hrs

1993: 219 hrs

2022: 219 hrs (to 25th)

2013: 219 hrs

Edited August 26, 2022 by B87

[SunSean]

40 minutes ago, B87 said:

I believe that after today's sunshine totals are added, London will have overtaken the totals of Augusts 2016 and 2019, meaning that August 2022 will be the sunniest since 2005!

Sunniest Augusts since 1991:

1995: 295 hrs

1998: 263 hrs

2003: 255 hrs

2005: 250 hrs

1991: 242 hrs

1997: 241 hrs

2016: 222 hrs

2019: 222 hrs

1993: 219 hrs

2022: 219 hrs (to 25th)

 

What London station is that? I have all the official Heathrow data and all the totals match those except for 1997 (194 hours), 2016 & 2019 (both 201 hours) and 2022 is currently on 196. Even still, your statement is correct as we should have had enough sunshine today to overtake 2016 & 2019 becoming indeed, the sunniest August since 2005. Been a long time coming!

[B87]

10 minutes ago, SunSean said:

What London station is that? I have all the official Heathrow data and all the totals match those except for 1997 (194 hours), 2016 & 2019 (both 201 hours) and 2022 is currently on 196. Even still, your statement is correct as we should have had enough sunshine today to overtake 2016 & 2019 becoming indeed, the sunniest August since 2005. Been a long time coming!

It's Heathrow. The values since 2007 are not the true values, they have to be multiplied by approx 1.12 to compare to the years before 2007, as the current sunshine recorder there under-reports.

I have the corrected values since 2007 in a spreadsheet that the Met Office sent me last year, as I wanted to compare Kew Gardens to Heathrow since 2007 to see if there was indeed an issue with the Heathrow recorder. See attached the actual Heathrow values.

Re: 1997, you are correct - I was looking at July by mistake. The next sunniest August in the list then becomes 2013 with 219 hours.

CS0044355 Heathrow Monthly Sun Hours 2006-2020 (002).xlsx

Edited August 26, 2022 by B87

[HellItsHot]

August bank holiday is the worst bank holiday. Signals the end of summer, longer nights and more spiders. 
 

Plus this year we have the added terror of gas bills we might have to sell a kidney to be able to pay. I’m not sure I’ll be welcoming those ‘nailed on’ easterlies this year. 

[MP-R]

20 minutes ago, HellItsHot said:

 

Plus this year we have the added terror of gas bills we might have to sell a kidney to be able to pay. I’m not sure I’ll be welcoming those ‘nailed on’ easterlies this year. 

Agreed. I’d welcome a mild dry winter this year with plenty of sunshine. That means autumn needs to be wet so we don’t have major water issues next year.

[Weather Enthusiast91]

The last few days of summer are looking very pleasant for my neck of the woods. Day temps between 19-22 Celsius, a blend of sun and clouds and comfortable humidity, which all together make for very useable conditions. It's been a good summer this year regarding warmth and sunshine, but I am glad there are no more heatwaves on the horizon. I am starting to look forward to the season of fruitful mellowness now. 

[Mapantz]

I'd quite like a 13/14 winter again..

[damianslaw]

3 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

I'd quite like a 13/14 winter again..

No thanks worse winter ever here.. rained incessantly and stormy. We had about 3 hours of sleety snow and that was it. A shocker.

[Mapantz]

2 minutes ago, damianslaw said:

No thanks worse winter ever here.. rained incessantly and stormy. We had about 3 hours of sleety snow and that was it. A shocker.

That's what made it so good!

I went to a beach during every named storm, by day and by night. Fishing was good after the storms as well.

[damianslaw]

4 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

That's what made it so good!

I went to a beach during every named storm, by day and by night. Fishing was good after the storms as well.

Guess if you like tempestuous weather with rain and wind in your face it was a good winter. I just remember the rain was relentness, there was barely any settled spell and consequently little sunshine, frost or snow. I like good winter walking weather and it was terrible on that score. 

Edited August 26, 2022 by damianslaw

[Don]

14 minutes ago, damianslaw said:

No thanks worse winter ever here.. rained incessantly and stormy. We had about 3 hours of sleety snow and that was it. A shocker.

Agreed, definitely one of the worst winters ever and similar to the PV of doom 2019/20 winter!

BTW you had 3 hours more of sleety snow than I had in 2013/14!!

Edited August 26, 2022 by Don

[summer blizzard]

18 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

I'd quite like a 13/14 winter again..

I am offended that you call that a winter. It is the single time in my life that failed to produce lying snow. It was an endless Autumn. 

[Mapantz]

3 minutes ago, summer blizzard said:

I am offended that you call that a winter. It is the single time in my life that failed to produce lying snow. It was an endless Autumn. 

I enjoy extreme weather, I make zero apologies for it.

[damianslaw]

1 hour ago, HellItsHot said:

August bank holiday is the worst bank holiday. Signals the end of summer, longer nights and more spiders. 
 

Plus this year we have the added terror of gas bills we might have to sell a kidney to be able to pay. I’m not sure I’ll be welcoming those ‘nailed on’ easterlies this year. 

Weather wise Late May bank holiday often better, and compared to it there is a much more downbeat mood about it. We are over 2 months past the summer solstice, compared to the far better juncture of 3 weeks before it.

Edited August 26, 2022 by damianslaw

[PiscesStar]

Delighted the Scorching heat risk has passed, for now and perhaps the rest of the season... What will autumn bring? 

[SunSean]

10 hours ago, B87 said:

It's Heathrow. The values since 2007 are not the true values, they have to be multiplied by approx 1.12 to compare to the years before 2007, as the current sunshine recorder there under-reports.

I have the corrected values since 2007 in a spreadsheet that the Met Office sent me last year, as I wanted to compare Kew Gardens to Heathrow since 2007 to see if there was indeed an issue with the Heathrow recorder. See attached the actual Heathrow values.

Re: 1997, you are correct - I was looking at July by mistake. The next sunniest August in the list then becomes 2013 with 219 hours.

CS0044355 Heathrow Monthly Sun Hours 2006-2020 (002).xlsx 115.44 kB · 2 downloads

Where did you find this out? That's quite interesting but would love some more info on that.

[Mark Smithy]

A reply to @mushymanrob as it sits better in this thread.

Please don't call someone 'strange' if you don't know them or listen to them. Especially the derogatory mocking application of a laughing emoji.

You are quite wrong. Paradoxically autumn is a season of huge renewal. It's when Nature prepares for winter. Like Spring, when the sap moves the other way. Autumn is most certainly not about death and decay. It is a time of immense movement and energy. Signs of that occur everywhere if you look. Autumn is not still, nor is it dying or decay. It is a very busy time. Nature doesn't 'die' in autumn. It gets ready. It is in preparation for a still period before bursting into renewal the next spring. Just as sleep is not synonymous with death, so autumn is not about dying.

At the solstices the sun and earth are in balance: the days and nights are of equal length. The earth is still in itself and less energetic. Changes either side are slow and take many weeks. Conversely at the two equinoxes the energies are powerful. Days and nights change by several minutes every twenty four hours. There is movement.

I am very proximal to Nature and the elements. I know you spend a lot of time gardening too but this is something deeper. But ... listen a little to another's perspective. My words are in tune with many others who live close to the land like Robert MacFarlane, Merlin Sheldrake (wow the fungi in autumn is something else) and Robin Wall Kimmerer.

Meteorologically we see a match. Often the quietest times coincide with those solstices with high pressure blocking in mid-winter and mid-summer. It is at the equinoxes that energies become resurgent, and the heavens open replenishing our ground with life-giving water.

[mushymanrob]

7 minutes ago, Mark Smithy said:

A reply to @mushymanrob as it sits better in this thread.

Please don't call someone 'strange' if you don't know them or listen to them. Especially the derogatory mocking application of a laughing emoji.

You are quite wrong. Paradoxically autumn is a season of huge renewal. It's when Nature prepares for winter. Like Spring, when the sap moves the other way. Autumn is most certainly not about death and decay. It is a time of immense movement and energy. Signs of that occur everywhere if you look. Autumn is not still, nor is it dying or decay. It is a very busy time. Nature doesn't 'die' in autumn. It gets ready. It is in preparation for a still period before bursting into renewal the next spring. Just as sleep is not synonymous with death, so autumn is not about dying.

At the solstices the sun and earth are in balance: the days and nights are of equal length. The earth is still in itself and less energetic. Changes either side are slow and take many weeks. Conversely at the two equinoxes the energies are powerful. Days and nights change by several minutes every twenty four hours. There is movement.

I am very proximal to Nature and the elements. I know you spend a lot of time gardening too but this is something deeper. But ... listen a little to another's perspective. My words are in tune with many others who live close to the land like Robert MacFarlane, Merlin Sheldrake (wow the fungi in autumn is something else) and Robin Wall Kimmerer.

Meteorologically we see a match. Often the quietest times coincide with those solstices with high pressure blocking in mid-winter and mid-summer. It is at the equinoxes that energies become resurgent, and the heavens open replenishing our ground with life-giving water.

Theres a difference between listening to someones pov and accepting/rejecting it.

You expect to come out with some statement and expect everybody to accept it.

Summer is not "torpid", its anything but, its when nature is in full swing, the height of flowering, insect activity, skies full of birds, its vibrant.

Autumn is not full of energy, Autumn is when energy is rapidly reducing as nature heads towards sleep. As a result of lowering energy, vegetation dies off, suggesting Autumn isnt "death and decay" is simply wrong.

There is no correlation between the solstices and high pressure, that is simply not true.

March is often the driest month, so your assertion that the equinoxes bring life giving water is also not true.

And then you moan when these points that are demostrably nonsense arent accepted. It YOU who needs to listen.

[Mark Smithy]

You are being rude again and that's disappointing.  I'm not 'moaning' Rob I am suggesting that you look again at how autumn is a time of renewal.

Storms frequently occur when temperature gradients are at their steepest, October 1987 being a classic example. It's those extreme temperature gradients which contribute significantly to cyclogenesis. Conversely, and I'm sure you don't really mean to dispute this, high pressure cells are most frequent during high summer and mid-winter: the times when blocking most frequently occur.

Empirically of course equinoxes have the greatest change in day and night length: by 7 minutes or more every 24 hours in southern Britain. The day-night lengths are at their most stagnant on June 21st and December 21st and take many weeks to begin to change. When they do, they speed up exponentially and are at their most rapid points of change on March 21st and September 21st. Really indisputable. These are times of great energy.

I think in your rather knee-jerk reaction to a point that is outside your comfort zone you are not really listening to the paradox of autumn. The changes that we see, which are so dramatic, are not 'death'. The decay is not about trees or plants actually dying. They are preparing. And preparation is a time of intense activity. In mid summer there is a calm. Animals sleep during the heat of the day. In autumn activity becomes intense as Nature prepares for the next solstice, when the Earth sleeps once more.

I will leave it there. Maybe try being a little less aggressive and open to another POV.

[mushymanrob]

25 minutes ago, Mark Smithy said:

A reply to @mushymanrob as it sits better in this thread.

Please don't call someone 'strange' if you don't know them or listen to them. Especially the derogatory mocking application of a laughing emoji.

You are quite wrong. Paradoxically autumn is a season of huge renewal. It's when Nature prepares for winter. Like Spring, when the sap moves the other way. Autumn is most certainly not about death and decay. It is a time of immense movement and energy. Signs of that occur everywhere if you look. Autumn is not still, nor is it dying or decay. It is a very busy time. Nature doesn't 'die' in autumn. It gets ready. It is in preparation for a still period before bursting into renewal the next spring. Just as sleep is not synonymous with death, so autumn is not about dying.

At the solstices the sun and earth are in balance: the days and nights are of equal length. The earth is still in itself and less energetic. Changes either side are slow and take many weeks. Conversely at the two equinoxes the energies are powerful. Days and nights change by several minutes every twenty four hours. There is movement.

I am very proximal to Nature and the elements. I know you spend a lot of time gardening too but this is something deeper. But ... listen a little to another's perspective. My words are in tune with many others who live close to the land like Robert MacFarlane, Merlin Sheldrake (wow the fungi in autumn is something else) and Robin Wall Kimmerer.

Meteorologically we see a match. Often the quietest times coincide with those solstices with high pressure blocking in mid-winter and mid-summer. It is at the equinoxes that energies become resurgent, and the heavens open replenishing our ground with life-giving water.

High pressure blocking at the solstices?... LOL
 

1 minute ago, Mark Smithy said:

You are being rude again and that's disappointing.  I'm not 'moaning' Rob I am suggesting that you look again at how autumn is a time of renewal.

Storms frequently occur when temperature gradients are at their steepest, October 1987 being a classic example. It's those extreme temperature gradients which contribute significantly to cyclogenesis. Conversely, and I'm sure you don't really mean to dispute this, high pressure cells are most frequent during high summer and mid-winter: the times when blocking most frequently occur.

Empirically of course equinoxes have the greatest change in day and night length: by 7 minutes or more every 24 hours in southern Britain. The day-night lengths are at their most stagnant on June 21st and December 21st and take many weeks to begin to change. When they do, they speed up exponentially and are at their most rapid points of change on March 21st and September 21st. Really indisputable. These are times of great energy.

I think in your rather knee-jerk reaction to a point that is outside your comfort zone you are not really listening to the paradox of autumn. The changes that we see, which are so dramatic, are not 'death'. The decay is not about trees or plants actually dying. They are preparing. And preparation is a time of intense activity. In mid summer there is a calm. Animals sleep during the heat of the day. In autumn activity becomes intense as Nature prepares for the next solstice, when the Earth sleeps once more.

I will leave it there. Maybe try being a little less aggressive and open to another POV.

My knee jerk reaction was simply a response to utter nonsense.

 

[Methuselah]

2 minutes ago, Mark Smithy said:

You are being rude again and that's disappointing.  I'm not 'moaning' Rob I am suggesting that you look again at how autumn is a time of renewal.

Storms frequently occur when temperature gradients are at their steepest, October 1987 being a classic example. It's those extreme temperature gradients which contribute significantly to cyclogenesis. Conversely, and I'm sure you don't really mean to dispute this, high pressure cells are most frequent during high summer and mid-winter: the times when blocking most frequently occur.

Empirically of course equinoxes have the greatest change in day and night length: by 7 minutes or more every 24 hours in southern Britain. The day-night lengths are at their most stagnant on June 21st and December 21st and take many weeks to begin to change. When they do, they speed up exponentially and are at their most rapid points of change on March 21st and September 21st. Really indisputable. These are times of great energy.

I think in your rather knee-jerk reaction to a point that is outside your comfort zone you are not really listening to the paradox of autumn. The changes that we see, which are so dramatic, are not 'death'. The decay is not about trees or plants actually dying. They are preparing. And preparation is a time of intense activity. In mid summer there is a calm. Animals sleep during the heat of the day. In autumn activity becomes intense as Nature prepares for the next solstice, when the Earth sleeps once more.

I will leave it there. Maybe try being a little less aggressive and open to another POV.

I guess that 'autumn renewal' is why trees lose their leaves, then? Or is it down to simple thermodynamics -- as in, there's insufficient daylight to make photosynthesis worthwhile -- all biochemical reactions slow down or cease altogether?

[mushymanrob]

4 minutes ago, Mark Smithy said:

Empirically of course equinoxes have the greatest change in day and night length: by 7 minutes or more every 24 hours in southern Britain. The day-night lengths are at their most stagnant on June 21st and December 21st and take many weeks to begin to change. When they do, they speed up exponentially and are at their most rapid points of change on March 21st and September 21st. Really indisputable. These are times of great energy.

 

 Thats the theory and in Autumn, probably true... but the spring equinox on march 21st is more often then not blocked, and cannot be described as energetic, not wet.

There is NO correlation between the solstices , equinoxes and the weather patterns except that the autumn equinox is more likely to be unsettled.